Curse

MithranArkanere · Oct 17, 2008, 02:57 PM // 14:57

This is GW. There is NO ROOM for "1-of -a-kind" stuff.
Please change your chip to GW when in Sardelac.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MirkoTeran

3 from top of my head: Echovald Shield, Gothic Defender, healing/prot req Platinum Staffs.

Gothic Defender is one of the best that support the idea.

In my 3 years playing GW, Echovald Forest is the place I've been most with most characters.
All my ten characters have all Factions Towns unlocked and have openend the areas, and all of them have at least 2 Kurzick and 2 Luxon skills.
I've also got ALL the elites of my Asssasin and many elites of other characters by farming bosses in Echovald.

In that time playing there, I've got uncountable Gothic Defenders, and no one of them had decent stats. And I could count with the fingers of one hand the ones.
And you could say "Then buy it from someone". But there is NO ONE selling one of them with the stats I want.

The only possible way it's getting one from someone else that dropped from the Xunlai Chest, but then, what's the purpose of the drops in Factions and Prophecies, other than merchant fodder, if you won't use not even 0.001% of them?
Having to seek in external sites to find sellers it's annoying.
Having to spend hours spamming in a town to find a seller is annoying.
Having to get another item when I just want to change one property its annoying.
Gothic defenders are not really rare. But most of the drops of the item can't be compared to nay PvP-created item.
I want an item to use it, not to make screenshots and use up storage space.

It's REALLY great when you get a perfect drop, but in Prophecies and Factions, most players won't even have a look see the stats unless the item is gold or the is skin ultra-rare, and even after that, specially for wands, staves, shields and foci, they will discard more than 99.99% of those drops, because they can't compare to anything that dropped in Nightfall or Eye of the North.
Every single person I know that that started playing with Nightfall and then went to Factions or Prophecies said the same when asked: Drops in Factions and Prophecies suck.

- This is GW.
- Inscription and insignia are the new system used in all new areas, crafters and chets. Including those added to Factions and Prophecies (like the weapons in the Prophecies end-credits)
- Retroactive changes are ALWAYS good. If someone complains about the end-credits areas being added to Prophecies, sorry, but that someone is plain stupid.
- What would be allowed by making all drops use the same system would be better that what having different systems in different regions make.

That's all needed to know to support the idea.

The only reason I've heard so far against the idea is: "I want drops to be more rare".
Well, no problem. That can be done, but that is NOT related to inscriptions.
You can just reduce the drop rates of those weapons with rare skins once inscribbed.
If the drop rate of an item it's 0.1%, and only 1% of those drops is maxed and with commonly used stats, after changing it to inscriptions, you just change the drop rate, having then a drop rate of 0.01% with 10% of those drops usable.

The result is even better, because there won't be a lot of crap versions of the items, there would be FEWER items, and, at the same, time, more of them would be maxed+nice stats.
So, form 10000 drops, instead 1000 merchant fodder and ONE good. You'll get quite 800 merchant fodder, 200 usable very common drops for heroes, friends, sell or whatever you want, and 1 rare.

------------

So this is what has to be done:

Set the same system of drops for the whole game. Regardless of whatever the system is.
Keep inscriptions for at least HM bosses, chests, reward chests, treasures; for some collectors and for all NPC crafters.
Rework the drops to keep rare the skins that are supposed to be rare. Maybe by adding a system like the trader system, that reduces the drops the more people get them.

Hyper Cutter · Oct 18, 2008, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by wind fire and ice

No,just no.

I dont want every drop from cantha and tyria to be 100% useless,if this happens i quit GW.

99.99% of what drops in Cantha and Tyria is already useless...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

Some items were designed to be rare. Most of them already lost their value because of lame inscribable copies started dropping.

No, they lost their value when people found efficient ways to farm them. Incriptions don't affect rarity at all, they just reveal the actual rarity of a skin (as opposed to the artificial rarity that results from screening the drops with bad inherent mods).

**cosyfiep** · Oct 18, 2008, 01:29 AM // 01:29

I just wish they were max instead of real junk (nothing like killing a level 28 enemy and get a crummy daggers with 6-12 damage and req 4.....).
Hardmode stuff SHOULD be better than normal mode, if making the inscribable is the only way to do that then I am for it.

Dr.Jones · Oct 18, 2008, 05:48 AM // 05:48

its funny how many people dont want this to change. how in any way is this going to cheapen the rare skins? last i checked the val spear still sells for 200k. and its inscribeable. 100% signed

Luminarus · Oct 18, 2008, 06:50 AM // 06:50

The problem most people have with this is that they wont get their old school items to sell, big woop. R8's are still bloody rare... change it so that r8 inscribables can drop rather then on the select few skins (never seen a r8 inscribable fellblade), and r7's so that people have things to spend their ursan earned money on. Also keep the current uninsc weapons uninsc so they become rarer like the old 15% no negatives were.

The way the market has gone, items basically have to have a nice to rare skin to even sell. Even then they have to be r9-10 usually (some exceptions), and then if uninsc 15>50, or perfect/near perfect dual mods.

This nearly never happens. I remember selling a basic axe r10 15>50 back when factions was just out for like 40k. Thats because 15>50 mods were rare enough as it was.
Inscriptions came out and getting 15>50 mods werent so hard...

Greens dropped in price massively (the "solution" to not being able to afford perfect mods), previously rare skins dropped in value. Gloom Shields used to be like 400k, now they are like 8k for r9 strength. Inscriptions killed the price. However, due to inscriptions, non inscribable weapons are useless.
"Yay I got a r9 fellblade... oh rats its 14 stance... cant sell it". This happened to a friend of mine a while back. This before inscriptions would be worth probably 60k-100k atleast. Now its useless because can get a r9 15>50 fellblade for 20k.

This idea wont kill the rarity of these items, it will make them useable.

/signed

Yawgmoth · Oct 18, 2008, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

This is GW. There is NO ROOM for "1-of -a-kind" stuff.

This is GW and cool rare, very rare, unique and 1-of-a-kind items were ALWAYS a part of it.
This is a great aspect of the game that most other mmos don't have at all, using only fixed stats items with pre-designed amount of grind connected to each of them.

Quote:

- Retroactive changes are ALWAYS good.

That's just sooo wrong.
Not always.
Here in this thread we're discussing a perfect example of where they can be something horrible.

Retroactive changes are good ONLY IF:

-they're good. as opposed to being bad. /doh
-they're strict improvements - they aren't changing anything into worse as a side-effect,
-there are strong reasons for implementing them and NO good reasons against,
-applying them won't hurt the game experience of a significant portion of the playerbase, be it ~40% (as would current results of this thread's poll suggest) or 10% or 5%.
-they're not unnecessarily changing the way something works if it's not broken,
-they don't remove differences that make older content more special and unique just for the sake of making everything the same

Quote:

So this is what has to be done:
1. Set the same system of drops for the whole game. Regardless of whatever the system is.
2. Keep inscriptions for at least HM bosses, chests, reward chests, treasures; for some collectors and for all NPC crafters.
3. Rework the drops to keep rare the skins that are supposed to be rare. Maybe by adding a system like the trader system, that reduces the drops the more people get them.

Nothing has to be done, we're in a situation where doing nothing is most likely to be the best way. At this point any change could bring more bad than good. Any possible changes should be considered extremelly carefully and should pass all the points I've posted above. They require a strong reason. And 'making everything the same' is not a good reason at all, I'd rather say it's a reason against making any unnecessary changes.

1. At this point removing any of the 2 drop systems would be just as bad. So it would have to be a mix of the both. Quite revolutionary.
If there would really be a reason for a revolution, I've suggested one somewhere earlier in this thread (or in a similar one) -- to add a new superior rarity level - a new color (like for example orange) for all the inscribable items. As they're technically guaranteed perfects they should be more rare than regular oldschool golds.
As regular drops those should have low chances, like 5-15% of all golds, depending on skin (think about it - 5% chance to get a perfect Magmas Shield in Tyria instead of current like 0.1%). The percentages could be doubled for bosses and HM locked chests and could be at 50%+ for dungeon endchests up to even 100% for elite reward chests like HoH/Zaishen/FoW/UW/Deep/Urgoz (practically no change for them).

Also, following the current rule that certain skins may only appear at selected rarity levels (colors), the last few skins that don't currently have inscribable copies would simply not drop at the 'orange' rarity at all.

Oh, and the old problem of insc blues and purples reappears - currently they're just as good as insc. golds, which is a big WTF. Clearly it's just wrong. Even according to official

Quote:

Originally Posted by Game Update - October 25, 2006

Inscriptions and inscription slots are sometimes found on rare weapons dropped by monsters in Elona.

sometimes on rares - thats quite opposite of having them at most of random blues and on all purples.

2. Crafters and collectors don't need any changes in what they offer. Reward chests I mentioned above. But I think a proper design would be not to make too high chances for them as HM mob/boss/chest drops - HM is the way for producing mass golds, gold item droprates from all those sources are already high. If insc golds rate for HM chests was as high as 20%, repeaded opening of specific chests could generate stupid amounts of for example insc. Magmas Shields (far more than can be farmed in NF right now). The only solution is either adjusting droprates of selected prestige skins (something I wanted to avoid) or making lower chance for insc versions to drop for those selected skins. So a HM Chest could have 33% for insc. golds but still only 5% (or maybe less) of Magmas from them would drop insc.

3. I wouldn't mess with the droprates. Nothing wrong with them and some not-so-rare skins add a lot to the feeling of an area or culture, even when they drop not so good. Solution simple again, just make the inscribable golds more rare for those skins than for those designed to be basic and common.

Summary: the only change that could work would be some kind of a complete overhaul of drops in all campagins. A big totally revolutionary change, a massive redesign.

The only alternative: Do nothing.
By far the most likely one to happen and I'm totally happy with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter

99.99% of what drops in Cantha and Tyria is already useless...

strange, I still find over 15% actually useful gold weapon drops in Tyria/Cantha. And satisfaction from finding something truly exceptional that happens only there greatly overwhelmes the 99%+ equally perfect and equally boring drops of Nightfall/EotN that end up merched anyway.

Quote:

No, they lost their value when people found efficient ways to farm them. Incriptions don't affect rarity at all, they just reveal the actual rarity of a skin (as opposed to the artificial rarity that results from screening the drops with bad inherent mods).

Oh god, you're clueless and make up pure BS. "Artifical rarity" omg...
"Inscriptions don't affect rarity at all" = probably the most stupid sentence I've read on the internet in the last few weeks.

Something you should think about:

Imagine 2 different semi-rare weapon skins - one exclusive to Factions with no inscribable versions available and one exclusive to Nightfall and dropping only inscribable. Assume that both of them are equally appealing and equally rare - have exactly the same chances to drop in their appropriate regions and that none of them can be excessively farmed for. And somehow the Factions one is a highly valued prestige skin but the Nightfall one is treated as common worthless junk.

Or a different scenario:

Let's have just one semi-rare Factions excluisive skin that doesn't have inscribable versions avaulable. And then a horrible update from hell makes them start dropping inscribable instead, with no changes to it's droprate at all.
What happens to the value and prestige of this skin?
It's lost forever. It becomes a product for the masses, at best it's a mediocre item now, no longer coveted, considered any special, precious or rare. It doesn't feel rare anymore. (exception: in some extreme cases the existing few perfect original pre-nerf pieces can retain or even gain value among the most hardcore collectors who love original rarities)

Don't you understand that an item can be *actually rare* because of it's combination of stats and skin?
Don't you understand that the skin itself doesn't have to be superrare to have a specific item with this skin to be rare or even unique?
Can you imagine how rare would have the Factions exclusive skins to be to retain their value and prestige under the inscription system? They would have to be so rare that most regular players would never see even 1 of them (shields) or maybe 1 (weapons)! So many great skins would be wasted for making them so elite, not to be even seen by most. But thanks to having the drop quality to differ, all players can experience them as a part of the world and they can still make great valuable rewards if a good one is found.

Dr.Jones · Oct 18, 2008, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

WALLS OF TEXT I CANT SEE THOUGH TO THE OTHER SIDE POP.

but for reailz this one quote makes you insta-fail.

Quote:

This is GW and cool rare, very rare, unique and 1-of-a-kind items were ALWAYS a part of it.

why? Because skins, Make NO DIFFERENCE TO HOW THE GAME IS PLAYED.

yes there are very rare skins. but it dost change the fact that you can have a Crystalline Sword rec9 that you payed 100k+ for with +30hp and 15/50. i could make the exact same sword with out the fancy skin for FREE on a pvp toon. or very cheeply on a Pve toon. and that right there is why Guild wars wins. because i dont have to do stupid WOW raids to get good equipment, for eather pvp or pve.

which is why it makes no sence as to why anyone would care. for the most part your paying for the skin. and the rec. i for one would never and will never buy weapons that are not inscribe able.

and last i checked Voltaic Spears still cost 300k+ and most of thous are inscribe able and i think people pay even more if they are. so the hole argument that this would devalue these weapons is a false one, other wise no one would care about the voltaic spears witch are inscribe able.

manitoba1073 · Oct 18, 2008, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Jones

Because skins, Make NO DIFFERENCE TO HOW THE GAME IS PLAYED.

And here is where all the arguements fail for wanting inscriptions world wide fail also. Go pick up a colloctors weapon that is inscripiable then.

The problem that all the pro wanters is they want the skin with the stats. Glad You finally see that it dont matter that you got a usuless crystalinne with crappy mods as you can still use that collectors sword with inscrtiptions. And with that you all can stop the Q_Q.

HawkofStorms · Oct 18, 2008, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter

99.99% of what drops in Cantha and Tyria is already useless...

99.99% of everything that drops EVERYWHERE is worthless. I mechant perfect mods all the time now, because it is impossible to sell. Seriously 15^50 weapons used to be worth something. Now... gl.

MithranArkanere · Oct 18, 2008, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

This is GW and cool rare, very rare, unique and 1-of-a-kind items were ALWAYS a part of it.
This is a great aspect of the game that most other mmos don't have at all, using only fixed stats items with pre-designed amount of grind connected to each of them.

Plase, I say it again.
CHANGE YOUR CHIP TO GW WHILE IN SARDELAC.
You are still posting with a chip for other game. Maybe Dunger Runners or Diablo II or WoW or something like that.

In GW, the UNIQUE items are one of the EASIEST kind of items to get. Unique weapons have an 1..20% drop rates, and their properties are not unique at all.
GW is the kind of game that calls 'unique' what is actually quite common.

You can't invalidate when others say just by saying the opposite, specially when what you say makes no sense. There are many, MANY MMOs whith items that can be upgrades with many and multiple combinations.
There are some games with many combinations in items and so many properties that every single higher-end item is literally unique and almost unrepeatable.

This is GW. The PvP item system is the example of how items are in GW.
How?
1 base + fixed number of upgrades per item type, with very limited possibilities and limited number of combinations.

If you want something to be more rare, you make it harder to get, not useless % of the time you get it.
Again, and again, and again.
Inscritions don't make things less rare. They increase the 'usable life' of an item.

Because no matter what happens, the Inscriptions will stay in Nightfall and Eye of the North, and when most of the people have to choose between an item they can fully modify for 50k and one they can't for 500k, they will go for the inscribed drop.
Yeah, some may not. But since they are less, those that cling to the 'old school' system will keep finding harder and harder to sell.

Since inscriptions will NEVER be removed. You must change the point of view and suggest measures that increase rarity and sales under the inscription system.

As I said, examples of those measures are drop rate reworks and the Xunlai Marketplace (I love saying Xunlai Marketplace, XD).

jaximus · Oct 23, 2008, 12:19 AM // 00:19

/not signed. i blame the z-chest for most of these problems. prof/factions skins are cooler than nf/gwen skins. the issue arose when the cool skins had both non insc/incribabable versions. the allure of certain skins was cuz they were put in hard to clear places so there was rarity in them. because they were hard to get and you couldnt change stats, prices were high. now that you can click a chest as many times as you want as it spits out high end items, this is ruined. instead of players farming for those weps in hm where they arent inscribable, they can farm a chest as many times as they want? oh and give them an emote for it too

Dr.Jones · Oct 23, 2008, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaximus

/not signed. i blame the z-chest for most of these problems. prof/factions skins are cooler than nf/gwen skins. the issue arose when the cool skins had both non insc/incribabable versions. the allure of certain skins was cuz they were put in hard to clear places so there was rarity in them. because they were hard to get and you couldnt change stats, prices were high. now that you can click a chest as many times as you want as it spits out high end items, this is ruined. instead of players farming for those weps in hm where they arent inscribable, they can farm a chest as many times as they want? oh and give them an emote for it too

see that's your opinion i for one dislike 90% of the prof/factions skins. the only ones i can think of off the top of my head which i would want are the ids and the chaos axe and a few other super rare skins not the ugly christal line sword. i cant even think of factions weapon skins i like. if i am buying an item i am buying it for the skin not for whats on it. with that i look to see if its inscribeable. i wont by a weapon for more then 2-3k if its not iscribeable. (ids only exception seeing as they come perfect. and greens as they already are perfect.) imho a inscribable is always going to be worth more then something that is not. and thats why i want it changed.

MithranArkanere · Oct 23, 2008, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Inscriptions do to affect the skin, being them cooler or not as nothing to do with inscriptions.
Inscriptions just make weapons more reusable. Without inscriptions, people choose the fixed inherent property they like more, and go with it.

With inscriptions, they just need to find a perfect base, and then, they can change it whenever they want. That's actually cooler, but doesn't make skins better or worse.

Yawgmoth · Oct 23, 2008, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Plase, I say it again.
CHANGE YOUR CHIP TO GW WHILE IN SARDELAC.
You are still posting with a chip for other game. Maybe Dunger Runners or Diablo II or WoW or something like that.

In GW, the UNIQUE items are one of the EASIEST kind of items to get. Unique weapons have an 1..20% drop rates, and their properties are not unique at all.
GW is the kind of game that calls 'unique' what is actually quite common.

You talk as if you were playing GW only for the last year or 2. Truly Rare and unique items WERE ALWAYS A PART OF GW. Open your eyes. You have to accept that there's more to GW than just the lame cheapass inscribables, the system is richer and deeper than just that.

And when I say 'unique' I mean items that are truly unique, not greens, LoL.

Quote:

..blahblah..
Inscritions don't make things less rare. They increase the 'usable life' of an item.

And you keep repeating that pure BS.

Pure BS.

Ofcourse they make things less rare, MUCH LESS RARE. It should be really easy to understand and examples are everywhere.

When you have 2 skins with the same droprate but one drops with varying quality levels from bad to perfect, and the other drops inscribable = always inherently perfect, only the latter will flood the market and be practically worthless.

Varying quality levels of an item IS A DIFFERENT way to make items rare, and a much better one - it lets all players experience the content while still keeping best quality pieces rare and prestigeous.

Quote:

Because no matter what happens, the Inscriptions will stay in Nightfall and Eye of the North, and when most of the people have to choose between an item they can fully modify for 50k and one they can't for 500k, they will go for the inscribed drop.
Yeah, some may not. But since they are less, those that cling to the 'old school' system will keep finding harder and harder to sell.

Since inscriptions will NEVER be removed. You must change the point of view and suggest measures that increase rarity and sales under the inscription system.

As I said, examples of those measures are drop rate reworks and the Xunlai Marketplace (I love saying Xunlai Marketplace, XD).

The inscription system is hopeless and can't be helped. I predicted that long before it got released and I was totally right.

The fact it has to stay is as unfortunate as obvious - players wouldn't like that taken away from them.
But don't forget there's a significant part of the playerbase who enjoys the oldschool system and would really hate to have that taken away from them aswell.

That's why both systems have to stay.

As much as I'd really love to have the inscription system completely gone, I'm completely aware that removing either would cause way more hurt than would do good.

And keeping them tied to their specific regions instead of making a massive overhaul

And you're wrong with your 'prediction' on the future of oldschool market. It's exactly opposite - the game is old, players who already got tons of easy perfection in form of inscribable crap often want to go further and start buying and collecting true rarities.

Quote:

Inscriptions do to affect the skin, being them cooler or not as nothing to do with inscriptions.
Inscriptions just make weapons more reusable. Without inscriptions, people choose the fixed inherent property they like more, and go with it.

With inscriptions, they just need to find a perfect base, and then, they can change it whenever they want. That's actually cooler, but doesn't make skins better or worse.

Inscriptions completely kill the coolness factor of having a great weapon. With them instead of a great weapon you have just 'a skin' and a pile of mods.
Maybe it would be different if the inscribable drops differed somehow, with only a very small % of them having a perfect base, but with the way it's done they're ALL guaranteed perfects. (except high req shields)

And too high reusability is something bad in general, it reduces the need for finding another weapon, greatly hurting the demand part of the market.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Jones

imho a inscribable is always going to be worth more then something that is not. and thats why i want it changed.

It's completely different for the most of players who gladly pay more, often MUCH MORE for an identical item that's NOT inscribable. They really pay more! Original quality item will always be worth more than a lame clone of it.

Dr.Jones · Oct 24, 2008, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

OTHER WORDS.
It's completely different for the most of players who gladly pay more, often MUCH MORE for an identical item that's NOT inscribable. They really pay more! Original quality item will always be worth more than a lame clone of it.

IF that is true then you have been scammed or are scamming people. why would you ever want an item that's not inscribable? also if that was true Voltaic Spears would be worth nothing. but there not. the things that make things valuable are: Skin rarity Requirements and If its inscribeale or not.

its clear that we are both stubborn about are views. what is also clear is that people want all there items to come with a inscription slot as shown by the poll. the reason why i think you keep pushing for shity non inscribe able is because you have bought a bunch of them. and payed a lot more for them because of it.

Yawgmoth · Oct 24, 2008, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Jones

IF that is true then you have been scammed or are scamming people. why would you ever want an item that's not inscribable? also if that was true Voltaic Spears would be worth nothing. but there not. the things that make things valuable are: Skin rarity Requirements and If its inscribeale or not.

[email protected]

You know nothing.

I'm happy to pay more for an item just for it being Original, instead of a lame copy. Lots of other players do that aswell, which makes them simply worth more.

Voltaic Spear examples in this thread are terrible.
VS is expensive because it's both rare and more importantly it's
If there were Non-inscribable Voltaic Spears they would be worth MORE than current insc, if having good mods. And if ALL VS in existance dropped only Non-insc the +5Energy ones would be worth above 500 ectos, at the current overfarm level.

Another example for you:
There's an Original Canthan req.9 Emblazoned Defender +30/-5 (20%) for sale in High-End forum, last time I've checked the bids got above 150ectos and will probably go even higher. It's a very valuable rarity. For a contrast: I have an IDENTICAL copy of this shield, exact same stats, also req.9tac, but with 1 exception - it's inscribable, which makes it close to WORTHLESS, because it's so LAME.

And if the poll shows something it's that: There's a *significant* part of the playerbase that enjoys the cool oldschool weapons and don't want them to replaced by lame insc shit.
There has to be a REALLY STRONG REASON to make a big game change that would take away a great fun part from the significant oldschool fanbase.

And if I wanted the value of non-insc to go up I would support this change - Items that no longer drop only go up! I don't want that.

It's exactly opposite - I want them to stay because I LOVE BEING ABLE TO FIND THEM!

jaximus · Oct 24, 2008, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

With inscriptions, they just need to find a perfect base, and then, they can change it whenever they want. That's actually cooler, but doesn't make skins better or worse.

skins are very important. looks matter in a game like gw where max stats arent difficult to come by. also though, stats matter. we will use chaos axes for example because people like them. ive gotten countless q9's in my day. best ever though was a q9 14^50. the ability for some weapons to be inscribable makes them better(?). because with uninscriable drops, you need to count on 2 variables, req and the pre determined damage modifier (equivalent to incription that you cant change). inscribable weapons only need to hope for one variable, req. this is much easier to come across than 2 at the same time. so if all (hm) weapons were inscribable, the quantity of viable weapons for each skin would increase, making price fall, and prestige fall.

MithranArkanere · Oct 24, 2008, 04:27 PM // 16:27

And again, you talk from a point that it's outside GWO 2008. This is not Diablo, this is not Dungeon Siege, there is not always a better drop with a better combination of properties waiting out there.
Just change the chip and open you eyes. GW may have dungeons, but it's not a Hack-and-Slash game. Items in GW have a precisely fixed number of properties. Once a player finds the max, there is no better item waiting for him anywhere that may have better properties, just different skins.
If you want it otherwise, then it's like wanting and skills attributes to be fixed once you choose them: NOT GWO.

You may think it's cool to find a less useful item that just has a rare combination of properties. So what if it's rare if I can't use it the way I want to?
When I see one of those I can only think: "So what? What do I do with this?"
- Show off? That's plain silly. All rare skins are either always inscribed or more rare inscribed, since they drop inscribed only in the Zaishen chest and reward chests. You may see them more because people keep them more, but believe or not, when most people have an inscribed weapon in one hand exactly the same one in the other, they'll keep the inscribable and sell the other, trying to go for a ridiculously high price, putting forward the same silly arguments you bought and believe. "It's more rare". Yeah... but they still keep the inscribed and sell the not inscribed... isn't that suspicious?
In my old clan, we had a 'hardcore' trader. He was always gloating about how he did that.
- Use it? The modifier may be usable, but what If I want to make a quick change for PvP? I can always make another PvP character. Meh. But then I won't use MY character and her equipment. I want to play with my characters. Inscriptions help me a bit with quick changes. Non inscriptions don't.
We all have limited storage. I want to make the most of every slot. Inscriptions help me do that. With all my other items I can do the change, with the non-inscribed weapon I can't. And with foci, staves and shields using it's almost an utopia, since the old system made less than 0.1% of them drop with usable stats. While the new one allow to change them. And anytime I find the same item inscribed, it's done. I keep the inscribed and sell the other one to a merchant. You never know what future may bring you, so it's better to keep things that are more versatile.
- Give it away? And I'm not giving it so someone can scam some misinformed poor kid that still thinks it's valuable because he's clinging to the GWO2006 way of thinking, when he can find the same item inscribed and modify it the way he likes more.

Items with inscriptions are not 'lame copies', are items that people can customize better.
If you are against inscriptions, you are against insignia. They work exactly the same: they allow to change a variable property that was fixed since when there were less skins.
They help people with storage, they make PvP faster and easier, they allow to customize in a pinch (and weapon upgrade traders wold help a lot more with that)...

Since trading items without trader in slow and boring for the big majority of players, most people that keep trading want items that can be sold atr higher prices. They can't earn gold with volume of sales, so they want to make the most out of every single sale.
So they'll stick to the "I want an 'AWESOME' drop" every 1000000 drops, not just a 'Hey, nice catch' every 1000" idea they have of the old system.
Yet again, this is GW. People go for the max quite quick. PvP uses the max. Getting to PvP is easy and fast, all items are supposed to drop inscribed at least in the Zaishen chests. Only skin and base keep making items really rare and different, not just one single inherent modifier.

You can't just come here and talk about a different game, just because and old mistake made you think that was the proper way to do things.

All the points are already there:
- Items with inscriptions have are more versatile.
- Items with inscriptions are liked by most people.
- There are items that are expensive being inscribed and items that are not being uninscribed.
- There are items that are rare inscribed and items that are rare uninscribed.
- Most people play all campaigns. Guild Wars is not 3 different separate games. They are different campaigns of the same game. Imagine you had to use a different armors system in each region... oh, wait... we had that, it sucked... now it's fixed. Time to fix the weapons too.
- PvP uses the inscription system, and items in the old system drop with combinations that PvP characters can't replicate, which is UNFAIR for them, like happens with pets. People that cling to the old system would see that too if they opened their eyes.
- People that don't like inscriptions just want to show off or sell, and if they use items without inscriptions it's just stubborness, nothing else, items inscribed work not only as good as non-incribed items with the same properties, but they can be upgraded and modified later much better. When it comes to USING the item inscriptions are better. That's a fact.
- Although opinion for players that played first in Prophecies and Factions may vary, most players that played first Nightfall and Eye of the North concur that Prophecies and Factions drops DO suck. More than 99.99% of them go to the merchants. In other games that may be normal, but in GW that's just silly. More than 25% of the drops in Nightfall and factions are maxed and usable, and more than 2% of them are at the same time gold ones. That's a good rate considering the trade system we have now.
- There are already items that drop no more. And CE undedicated miniature sales will decrease until the last one vanishes. That's something to take care too, but it's not a reason against the change.
- The problem with trading is that there is less and less people that bothers selling. But's that a separate problem too. Once fixed (if it ever is) people would be able to get gold from more sales instead from big sales.

Less rarity or prestige?
- Decrease drop for certain skins. There are some skins that even drop only inscribed, but had decrease in value due to overfarming, not due to be inscribed, because they had never been inscribed from the start. So being the skin+base rare or the combination of skin+base+one fixed it's irrelevant, as long as the certain drop is. Let's say that an item it's 'rare' if it's the 1 item out of 10000. You can't see many of that.
With inscriptions, we now may have 100 out of 10000 of those items. Why? Because only 1 out of those 100 had a perfect inherent variable modifier, and now all 100 have an inscription slot.
Ok, then just reduce the drop rate. And ding. The item has still a 1 out of 10000 rarity, and, on top of that, it's inscribable. But you won't see 99 crappy ones and one perfect. You'll see ONE perfect. THE perfect. One out of ten hundred! That's actually more rare than getting also 99 14^50%.
Drop rates must be easier to change than inscriptions, since we have already weekends with different drops. So what is added from somewhere, can be removed from somewhere else. And this is what explains why inscriptions don't make skins less rare. People tastes and drop rates do.
- A PvE property could help too, that won't affect PvP. Then people could have any 'King of the Hill' crap they want there, without affecting PvP. IF anyone tells you that they want the PvE property to be a slot too, just answer them that PvE is meant to be a little more grindy, and since it's a PvE slot, it won't affect PvP at all and you will never need to make a 'quick change' to enter any PvP area, so turning the slot into an upgrade is not necessary.

Less sales?
- Make a better trade system.
- Force customization to be able to equip them so they are removed from the market forver and room for new drops is made. Less and less people buy and sale now, and less and less will, not adding inscriptions WON'T change that. Yes, people would hate that, but no one can't deny that most people only customize martial weapons, if they customize at all, and when an item is expensive, they many people don't customize just in case they want to sell it in the future. So the market is filling and filling with more and more items, thus decreasing the overall price. Items sold in traders are either used up once used or have a price to be reused, that's why their prices stay more or less logical. Same can't happen to weapons.

No combinations that exist in the old system?
- Add more combinations to unlock.
- Keep drops with the old system if they drop with combinations that can't be inscribed.
That was hard, eh?

Want to go back to how the game was 1,2, 3, 4, 5 years ago?
Want inscriptions removed from the game?
Want no upgrades at all worldwide, being all items fixed like in hack and slash games?
- Wake up.
Yup, nothing else can't be answered to any of those... well, maybe, but I don't use that kind of words.

Vinyl discs, cassettes, Laserdisc, CD, DVD, BlueRay...
When better things come out, there's always some people that clings to the old system and complains bout things changing.
Why? Hm... maybe they spent a lot of time with the old system, and a lot of effort... maybe they are so used to the old system they can't see how good the new is.
Now, people get things easier, faster and with more quality? Is that a reason to complain?
When things are better for those that come after us, we should rejoice, because things will be easier for us too.

Everyone knows that "Leave as it is" and "Go back" are NOT valid answers, NEVER. Some people may try to deny it, but they really know that things can only go forward and better, even if 'better' is not better for them, just better for 'most people'.
Just saying "No, no, no" or "Yes, period" won't be of any use.

For any reason against it, at least 1 or 2 ways to solve the raised problems will always come. Only a bit of brain cell power is required to see it.

I could endlessly try to make people understand, but now my hands hurt a little... I continue later.

Numa Pompilius · Oct 24, 2008, 06:12 PM // 18:12

[care)Yeah, all items should be inscribable.[/care]
OPERATION FAILED; SYNTAX ERROR IN LINE #1. UNABLE TO CARE.

jaximus · Oct 24, 2008, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Yet again, this is GW. People go for the max quite quick. PvP uses the max. Getting to PvP is easy and fast, all items are supposed to drop inscribed at least in the Zaishen chests. Only skin and base keep making items really rare and different, not just one single inherent modifier.

- Items with inscriptions are liked by most people.

you proved yourself wrong within your own argument. the zaishen chest allows people to farm the entire game in one spot and guarantee any drops they get are inscribable. therefore, every place that drops these same items in uninscribable versions is obsolete no? people like inscriptions more because only req matters. because only req matters the rates at which usable items are acquired is higher.

say 8 req 9s drop. 4 inscribable, 4 not. the inscribable ones are all 'perfect' yes?
the uninscribable ones with non max or useless damage modifiers are all merch-food correct?

the problem is because items have both inscribable and uninscribable versions of the same weapon. this problem was introduced with the zaishen chest.

if there was only one way a certain skin came, there wouldnt be an issue...